RE: Details required about Envision Perfactory

Dear Scott,
 
You may have vastly misunderstood the tone of my email, but believe me I am trying to find out exact details about Envisiontec system for Jewellery applications, which I am sure Envisiontec or any of its distributor won't tell me the truth & hidden facts.
 
Well I have done enough homework before puting mail on list. I will forward you all my correspondence I had with Steven & Mr. Shah, just see it & then make comments on the subject I am talking about.
 
If you find any answer anywhere on the net about the questions I have asked, please forward it to me. Before you make some remarks about some serious fact findng of any new technology introduced in the RP market (which is the purpose of this list), think twice. If somebody is giving misleading ino/replies, what is harm in exposing them here, so that at least readers know the facts.
 
I am a RP user with very serious interest in the technology & its applications, but find a lot of nonsense is going on in the industry as lack of knowledge specially about upcoming technologies like Envision. Don't you think list is the right place to have such technical arguments etc.
 
Take for example below, Mr. Shah is mentioning 12-14 rings in 3.5/4 hours with 0.025 layer & Steven is mentioning 6-8 rings in 5-6 hours, while only 2 big rings in 5 hours. I think Steven is honest enough to tell all the facts.
 
No ill interest is here, but just to make RP entusiasists aware of.
 
Finally instead of commeting, can you at least add any value to the discussions going over here, I won't say you will loose your credibility then. Friends keep aside our egos & try educate people about the RP.
 
Johnn.
 
My Question, was very specific, see below -

 ----- Original Message -----
  From: John Kerr
  To: rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi
  Sent: 20 December 2003 2:22 PM
  Subject: Fwd: Details required about Envision Perfactory

  John Kerr <johnnkerrr@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
    Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:32:22 +0800 (CST)
    From: John Kerr
    Subject: Details required about Envision Perfactory
    To: rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi

    Dear List,

    Can some users of Perfactory system for Jewellery applications can update me on the following data -

    1. Build speed in mm/hr with 0.025 mm layer thickness, with 32 & 60 microm pixel size. How many rings possible with height of 33 mm, per platform built in these resolutions.

    2, Same data as above but now with 0,050 layers

    Look for feedbacks.

    Johnn

Reply I got (Number 1)

Dear John,

Perfactory speed is as follows -

1) With 0.025 mm layer thickness, build speed is 8-10mm / hr (depending on the exposure time you set your machine at), thus for 33mm height of ring, it would take 3.5 - 4 hrs. In 32 micron platform built, about 12-14 rings can be made and in 60 micron built platform, about 25-28 rings can be made at a time. (also depends on the geometry of the ring)

2) with 0.050 mm layer thickness, built speed is approx. 15mm / hr and can take from 2.5-2.75hrs to built the 33mm ring. . No. of rings made on individual platform would be same as above.

Thanking you.

Best Regards,
Anuj Shah
Director
Sarto Electro Equipments Pvt. Ltd.
512 - Parekh Mansion,
S.V.P. Road,
Opera House,
Mumbai - 400 004
tel - +91-22-23823077
fax - +91-22-23879457
mob. - +91-98200 69892
email - anujshah@vsnl.com
  
Second & Honest Reply I got -

 
"Steven Adler ( A3DM )" <adler@a3dm.com> wrote: From: "Steven Adler \( A3DM \)"
To: "'John Kerr'"
Subject: RE: Details required about Envision Perfactory
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:41:35 -0500

the Viper, being a laser based system, must plot the contour of each geometry on each layer. Depending on the complexity of geometries this build time will vary. The Perfactory exposes all features on a given layer in about 8 seconds simultaneously for a 25 micron layer....much faster
 
bear in mind there is an additional 3-5 second on each layer to allow the material replenishment and Z axis adjustment for each successive layer.
 
Given the costs of the Viper to purchase and the on-going costs of support, material, laser replacement, etc. You could purchase 2-3 Perfactory systems
 
Thus far, when building rings we have found the average batch time to be 5-6 hours with 6-8 rings per batch. ( assume 8-9 mm ring width ) You can determine a daily output by the number of work shifts you have. The quantity would be less if you are using the multi-lens version as the build envelope is smaller

One question......where are you located...?

Steven Adler

Automated 3D Modeling, Inc

www.a3dm.com

adler@a3dm.com

603.433.4369

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi [mailto:owner-rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi] On Behalf Of John Kerr
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 1:31 AM
To: Steven Adler ( A3DM )
Cc: John Mastoloni; rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi
Subject: RE: Details required about Envision Perfactory

Dear Steven,
 
Yes ! Your reply looks one I can believe. Have a look at reply on list from one Mr. Anuj Shah about Envision speed. I do not know if he knows what he is talking about !
I was comparing the data of Envision with Viper speed.
 
Johnn.

"Steven Adler ( A3DM )" <adler@a3dm.com> wrote:
John
 
    My partner and I are the designated re-seller for the jewelry industry for Envisiontec Perfactory. Thus far there are only a couple of multi lens systems worldwide where the pixel size changes from 32 to 60 microns so we don;t have much data yet. We do have several systems here in the US building jewelry including my own using the fixed focal Perfactory Mini where the pixel size is 40 micron
 
    We have been building using 20-30 micron slice thickness with excellent results. The build time savings over the conventional Solidscape and/or Sanders is considerable. For example, two large high school rings took 5 hours at 25 micron and would take approximately;y 4 hours at 50 micron. This job ( 2pcs ) would take about 54 hours on a Solidscape machine Another example would be a conventional 3 stone ring 1CTTW. You can build 8 of this type of ring in 5 hours or one ring on a RapidToolmaker and take 22 hours.
 
    Obviously, there is a significant output increase over conventional systems. If you would like to contact me off line, I can provide you specific details about the process and where you can see a Perfactory Mini in your area....
 
 
sincerely
 
 

Steven Adler

Automated 3D Modeling, Inc

www.a3dm.com

adler@a3dm.com

Scott Tilton <stilton@protoprod.com> wrote:

Hey John,

Enjoy the new year.

Lighten up a little bit.

Perhaps I’m misreading the “tone” of your e-mails, but they seem very aggressive and confrontational.

I’d think I was watching an episode of “60 minutes” where a reporter has caught someone cheating.

Don’t get me wrong . .that’s all fine and dandy when a reporter catches someone who is lying or cheating and exposes the truth.

It would appear in this case though, that the reporter is asking a lot of inflammatory questions without having done the bare minimum amount of research.

I mean . . . take a few minutes and type “Perfactory” into Google.

I’m sure that will take you to the company’s website (Which I believe is Envisiontec . . .. not Envision or InVision . . . it is pretty important to use the right names these days)

Or some other resources on the web that will explain the basics of how their machine / the technology works.

By sitting there and blasting away with big guns in all directions, you are doing less damage than you would with some smaller, but more precisely aimed shots.

One again, in my opinion, your behavior is hurting your own credibility more than those you are questioning.

Chill out. Relax. Do a little light reading and research, and then come back with some questions.

Happy New Year.

Scott Tilton

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kerr [mailto:johnnkerrr@yahoo.com.sg]
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 5:25 AM
To: Anuj P Shah; rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi
Subject: Details required about Envision Perfactory

Dear Anuj,

Come on reply ! What happened you are so silent. All your explainations will have to be suppoted by logic >

Can Enviison explain his claims ?

Look for your immediate reply - Johnn.

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Received on Sat Jan 03 10:54:24 2004