RE: [rp-ml] free STL Files and other (free) things we wish for in the new year

Since we've decided that because of the wonderful advances in additive
manufacturing money would be soon obsolete. I think someone should "GIVE" me
an objet printer ;)

Lino P. Stavole

The Creature Company

 <http://www.creaturecompany.com/> www.creaturecompany.com

 <mailto:mail@creaturecompany.com> mail@creaturecompany.com

cell: 661-433-5283

From: owner-rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi [mailto:owner-rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi] On Behalf
Of Yasser Hosni
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 2:08 PM
To: Adrian Bowyer; rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi; G. Sachs
Subject: Re: [rp-ml] free STL Files and other (free) things we wish for in
the new year

I do not think we should use the word "biological" or "power" to described
money. One may have to go back when money used to be covered by gold (rare
material - Material is a stored entropy or energy). I

Yasser

>>> "G. Sachs" <sachsg@sbcglobal.net> 1/6/2010 4:12 PM >>>

Adrian,

This is starting to get really off the topic of RP (free or otherwise) ...
but since you brought it up, again, I think you are trying to make a very
'stretchy/sketchy argument', since in many systems of barter, you don't
immediately get anything in exchange for what you give and so have to trust
those whom you're bartering with that they will return the favor. So, you
might as well exchange a piece of paper (or DNA sequence) which describes
what you are going to get in return, or which allows you to trade something
you gave to one biological entity, for something you want from another.
Paper money is just one such 'promissory note', and gold, today, is still
primarily considered money, even though it is much more tangible and
directly useful than paper money. No, I think 'money' or what you describe
as "a worthless token" is almost as good as anything tangible (except when
there is a widespread loss of faith in it!). You are right, though, that
when dealing with money and delayed gratification, trust becomes very
important. All the more interesting, then, that plants and animals seem to
have also evolved this principle of trust and delayed reward and that it
seems to work pretty well, for the most part. No, I don't think 'money' is
just an accidental or silly human invention - it goes back a LONG way.

By the way, I think the RepRap project is pretty cool, but it will be at
least 30 years before machines can really 'replicate' themselves the way
plants and animals do. I'm still trying to decide, though, whether Reprap is
a really useful new tool or just another very clever, creative, toy (but
even if that, it's still well worth doing, because it is very instructive as
far as showing how machines get designed and built and what they do after
you are done.).

G. Sachs

P.S. What do you mean by 'very difficult to forge' and how does that enter
into your argument? Frankly, I think I forgot what point you were originally
trying to make.

  _____

From: Adrian Bowyer <A.Bowyer@bath.ac.uk>
To: G. Sachs <sachsg@sbcglobal.net>
Cc: rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 3:26:51 PM
Subject: Re: [rp-ml] free STL Files and other (free) things we wish for in
the new year

G. Sachs wrote:

> certainly DNA exchange, might count as one of the most fundamental and
low-level forms of currency exchange, the currency in this case being
'BENEFICIAL biological information'.

Then it's bartering or giving*, not money. The key aspects of money are
that it is a _worthless_ token of trust and exchange that it is very
difficult to forge. Swapping real valuable goods (like nectar in return for
pollination) is the opposite of what I mean.

---
*Of course kin selection means that it makes sense for organisms to give
real non-token resources (like milk) to relatives.
Best wishes
Adrian
Dr Adrian Bowyer
http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensab
http://reprap.org