[rp-ml] Landscape model/ cost effiesient way to print big models?

Tue Mar 27 04:26:24 EEST 2018

Bathsheba,

Today as I hack into 4' x 8' sheets of urethane foam block I have been
pondering your thoughts about why we are still machining (and planning on
buying a new mill this year).
Certainly there are cost issues.   A 4'x8'x4' block is about $700 with
freight.  If we give the benefit of the doubt to Additive, lets consider
1/2 of the block is going to get turned to dust so that is ~150,000 cm^3 of
material.  If we go with the low cost materials, maybe low cost filament is
$.02/cm^3 so that is $3000 for the same volume.  I suppose if I use a
sparse infill I can get closer to the urethane in cost but if you look at
the cost of UV cure and other precision processes then you are quickly get
to an order of magnitude price multiple.  I think this is where we were
back in the mid 2000s so the huge boom in public awareness has not brough
about much of a material cost reduction EXCEPT in filament extrusion.  Is
there a limit here or is it just a matter of sales volume and competition.
I think I remember that Carbon had an announcement out about beating the
$100 a liter barrier on UV cure.

Then we get to time.  No good idea really how to judge this except my
criteria last year at Rapid was a machine that could print a part at > 25
mm an hour on a max bed size of  250mm square .  That is perhaps
1500cm/hr.  I was looking to do this at under $100k machine price.  Nothing
really.  So that gets me thinking.   Leaving  part geometry aside for a
minute, what is it going to take to get to the "speed" of CNC machining for
big parts?   Do we need new processes to deposit large amounts of material
quickly and precisely or are we going to be machining terrain forms for
another 10 years?

Charles

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 4:13 AM, Igor Drstvenšek <info at rapiman.net> wrote:

> Bathsheba is right but none of this won't help Atte making his landscape
> model...
>
> If you want SLS parts, I presume you need something that will withstand a
> lot of "touching attention" and rough handling. The biggest envelope at the
> moment you can get with sPro230/140 and EOSINT P770. The build area in the
> first case is about 500mm square and in the second about 700x380. The
> plants I know about, closest to Finland are in Germany (FIT, Kegelmann and
> others) But if you're ready to cut your model in many small parts, I am
> sure you can find a lot of options in Finland too. I would contact Mr Jukka
> Tuomi at Aalto University...
>
> We have some machines here in Slovenia too, and if you don't mind the
> distance I can help.
>
> But for these models, I would rather try one of the 3DP processes -
> Bathsheeba knows a lot about these, but as far as Europe is concerned, I
> would recommend checking it out At Voxeljet directly. The founder, Dr Igo
> Ederer is a great person and I am sure he will point you to the nearest
> company running one of their huge machines. Regarding the material, there
> are two options suitable for your needs. One is PMMA and another is casting
> sand. Both require infiltration after printing.
>
> Again if you don't mind the distance we have one "casting sand" machine
> here. The working chamber's size is 2000x1000x800mm. The biggest Voxeljet's
> machine is 4x2x2m
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Best regards,
> Igor Drstvensek
>
> RAPIMAN.NET
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bathsheba Grossman [mailto:b at bathsheba.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 10:54 PM
> To: Rapid Prototyping Mailing List <rp-ml at rp-ml.org>; G. Sachs <
> sachsg at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [rp-ml] Landscape model/ cost effiesient way to print big
> models?
>
> On 3/2/2018 4:41 PM, G. Sachs wrote:
> > What? To be an expert in manufacturing technology, you have to know
> > which methods work best. That's manufacturing 101! Atte is not making
> jewelry!
> > Charles is right!
>
> I note here that, after years of enormous media attention, people's
> expectations of 3D printing still don't match reality.
>
> You may view it as a comment either on the inaccuracy of media reporting,
> or on the stately pace of evolution in the underlying technology.  If your
> preference is to view it as reflecting my ignorance, let's return that
> awkwardness to sender.
>
> -Bathsheba
> --
> Bathsheba Grossman                              Bathsheba Sculpture LLC
> http://bathsheba.com                            Free Forms
> http://crystalproteins.com                      Crystal Proteins
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> > *From:* Bathsheba Grossman <b at bathsheba.com>
> > *To:* Rapid Prototyping Mailing List <rp-ml at rp-ml.org>
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 2, 2018 4:22 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [rp-ml] Landscape model/ cost effiesient way to print big
> models?
> >
> > On 3/2/2018 3:17 PM, G. Sachs wrote:
> >  > Agree with Charles. Best way to go!
> >
> > It is remarkable how, after all these years, what we mainly do with
> > newcomers to 3D printing is still tactfully discourage them.
> >
> > I love the tech, yet I can't count the times I've given this advice.
> >
> > -Bathsheba
> > --
> > Bathsheba Grossman                              Bathsheba Sculpture
> > LLC http://bathsheba.com <http://bathsheba.com/>
>   Free Forms
> > http://crystalproteins.com <http://crystalproteins.com/>
> > Crystal Proteins
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rp-ml mailing list
> rp-ml at rp-ml.org
> http://rapid.rp-ml.org/mailman/listinfo/rp-ml
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rp-ml mailing list
> rp-ml at rp-ml.org
> http://rapid.rp-ml.org/mailman/listinfo/rp-ml
>

-- 

*Charles Overy*
Director - CEO
p:970.827.5274 sms:*800.448.8808*
www.lgm3d.com | www.cadspan.com
Follow LGM <http://www.lgm3d.com/> on Twitter <https://twitter.com/LGM3D>
Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/LGM3d> LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/company/lgm_2>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rapid.rp-ml.org/pipermail/rp-ml/attachments/20180326/3fa72b4d/attachment-0001.html>