RE: Ignored

From: Sabino Mata (
Date: Fri Apr 30 1999 - 21:36:58 EEST

Being a minority, I really think that you have missed the mark on this
issue. Yes, we all have to fit-in to a certain degree. Your anecdote gives
the impression that if " that female had not been able to out arm wrestle
the guys and kick their behinds" she might not have made it. What did you do
as a supervisor to facilitate her integration into the group? I feel that my
successes have been due to my abilities. But if I have to act "white" to be
considered or accepted into the group then the price is too high. And just
to set the record straight, I don't carry my ethnicity on my shoulder. I
strive to evaluate people on their abilities and qualities. In the end, it's
a person's ability and merit that should be the deciding factor of on the
job success.

> ----------
> From: Michael Hirschmann[]
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 10:55 AM
> To: Hurley, Lynda J
> Cc:
> Subject: Ignored
> I'm a relatively new to the RP industry, and have much enjoyed this RP-ML
> as
> a good source of knowledge and entertainment. This issue has helped on
> both
> those counts, as I find it an interesting and productive discussion, and
> also a bit confusing and perhaps amusing.
> I retired from the energy business in Houston before my current
> involvement
> with RP. I think it's safe to say that that business is a bastion of
> conservatism, and some of the same issues were hot topics there as more
> non-WASP males continued to integrate into the business. My first hand
> experiences with this included things like hiring the first woman employee
> for a plant maintainance crew at a plant in the back woods of Oklahoma.
> What I learned from that is that it's hard to generalize. Some minority
> individuals fit in well, and some didn't, and it was as much up to the
> individuals as it is the group they were to fitting into (sounds a lot
> like
> non-minorities). I'm not saying that minorities didn't face special
> challenges, I'm saying some were more proficient at effectively meeting
> these and other challenges (ie That first woman on the crew was also a
> weight lifter (a detail that did catch my attention during the interview),
> and seemed to quickly become one of the gang after arm wrestling a few of
> the good ol boys. I believe she also kicked the $#*+ out of one of the
> more
> obnoxious @$$%0!+$ on the crew, although I never heard about that, as that
> would have required official action on my part).
> I also contend that often times we find what we're looking for. I'm
> guessing humans spend a good portion of their wake hours reaffirming their
> beliefs by seeing into the world that which they already know. And then
> occassionally, we get jolted by something that derails our repeating
> cycles
> and we grow a little.
> (The "IT'S UP TO YOU" t-shirts can be purchased for a nominal fee upon
> request)
> Signed, Happy to be here Hirschmann
> For more information about the rp-ml, see

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